Discussion:
700 Triple killing plugs...
(too old to reply)
Jeff
2003-07-15 13:20:02 UTC
Permalink
Hi,

I have a 1998 Formula III with a 700 triple and MACH 1 triple pipes
and 3000kms.

Towards the end of the year it started to burn-up sparkplugs extremely
quick. Some times I would get 30kms other times 3kms out of new
plugs. I had the carbs done at the local dealer, added a new oil
injection cable and had that adjusted. The machine was a whole lot
faster but it still killed the sparkplugs after a 30 - 40km run.

Anyone have an ideas? I've tried various heat ranges of plugs and
found BR10ES to last the longest but the problem is still anoying and
expensive.
charles stoyer
2003-07-16 16:39:44 UTC
Permalink
Are you burning or fouling? If it's fouling, you can solve the expensive
part but not the annoying part. Just sandblast the fouled plugs and reuse
them. Then move to a hotter plug.

But if you found BR10ES work best, these are cooler than BR9ES or BR8ES, so
burning sounds like it is your problem.

Maybe the mixture is too lean then?

Charles.
Post by Jeff
Hi,
I have a 1998 Formula III with a 700 triple and MACH 1 triple pipes
and 3000kms.
Towards the end of the year it started to burn-up sparkplugs extremely
quick.
Wesley Thiessen
2003-07-16 19:42:56 UTC
Permalink
If you are fouling factory spec plugs, you have a problem... fix the problem,
not the symptom. JMHO.
Post by charles stoyer
Are you burning or fouling? If it's fouling, you can solve the expensive
part but not the annoying part. Just sandblast the fouled plugs and reuse
them. Then move to a hotter plug.
But if you found BR10ES work best, these are cooler than BR9ES or BR8ES, so
burning sounds like it is your problem.
Maybe the mixture is too lean then?
Charles.
Post by Jeff
Hi,
I have a 1998 Formula III with a 700 triple and MACH 1 triple pipes
and 3000kms.
Towards the end of the year it started to burn-up sparkplugs extremely
quick.
Jim
2003-07-16 19:42:41 UTC
Permalink
You should be using the BR9ES spark plugs, with a gap of 0.45 mm
(0.018"). This is per a service bulletin from Ski-Doo (1998 manuals
will recommend the BR10ES..). Your jetting should be the same as the
Mach 1 for whatever year pipes you have on it, if you need these, let
me know, and I can look it up in the Ski-Doo spec books.

I put a 1999 F III 700 engine in my sled, with my original '97 Mach 1
pipes, and used the jetting for a 1997 Mach 1.

What type of temperatures were you riding in when the plugs were
fouling? The factory jetting is set for 0 degrees C or -20 degrees F.

I have also found that using BR9EYA spark plugs on my sled helps with
fouling problems. I can easily go at least 1 season on one set of
plugs, but if I am riding when it's really warm out, I will foul out a
set every couple miles..

Hope this helps...

Jim
1997 Ski-Doo Mach 1
Post by Jeff
Hi,
I have a 1998 Formula III with a 700 triple and MACH 1 triple pipes
and 3000kms.
Towards the end of the year it started to burn-up sparkplugs extremely
quick. Some times I would get 30kms other times 3kms out of new
plugs. I had the carbs done at the local dealer, added a new oil
injection cable and had that adjusted. The machine was a whole lot
faster but it still killed the sparkplugs after a 30 - 40km run.
Anyone have an ideas? I've tried various heat ranges of plugs and
found BR10ES to last the longest but the problem is still anoying and
expensive.
Sasquatch
2003-07-16 23:20:30 UTC
Permalink
I have never fouled a set of plugs and I run on the rich side, I wonder how
you people do that? I change plugs every 2000 miles or so and they are not
fouled when I do. What this guy is talking about is burning up plugs. If
10's last longer than 9's it sounds like he is to lean not to rich. I'd say
take it to the dealer and have him check out the pistons.
Post by Jim
You should be using the BR9ES spark plugs, with a gap of 0.45 mm
(0.018"). This is per a service bulletin from Ski-Doo (1998 manuals
will recommend the BR10ES..). Your jetting should be the same as the
Mach 1 for whatever year pipes you have on it, if you need these, let
me know, and I can look it up in the Ski-Doo spec books.
I put a 1999 F III 700 engine in my sled, with my original '97 Mach 1
pipes, and used the jetting for a 1997 Mach 1.
What type of temperatures were you riding in when the plugs were
fouling? The factory jetting is set for 0 degrees C or -20 degrees F.
I have also found that using BR9EYA spark plugs on my sled helps with
fouling problems. I can easily go at least 1 season on one set of
plugs, but if I am riding when it's really warm out, I will foul out a
set every couple miles..
Hope this helps...
Jim
1997 Ski-Doo Mach 1
Post by Jeff
Hi,
I have a 1998 Formula III with a 700 triple and MACH 1 triple pipes
and 3000kms.
Towards the end of the year it started to burn-up sparkplugs extremely
quick. Some times I would get 30kms other times 3kms out of new
plugs. I had the carbs done at the local dealer, added a new oil
injection cable and had that adjusted. The machine was a whole lot
faster but it still killed the sparkplugs after a 30 - 40km run.
Anyone have an ideas? I've tried various heat ranges of plugs and
found BR10ES to last the longest but the problem is still anoying and
expensive.
Gary C
2003-07-17 02:29:45 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jim
The factory jetting is set for 0 degrees C or -20 degrees F.
O degrees C is freezing
100 degrees C is boiling, AFAIK
Wes 94ZR580
2003-07-17 15:01:49 UTC
Permalink
-20F is -29C.
Post by Gary C
Post by Jim
The factory jetting is set for 0 degrees C or -20 degrees F.
O degrees C is freezing
100 degrees C is boiling, AFAIK
Jim
2003-07-17 20:10:53 UTC
Permalink
Sorry, I had that WRONG.. It should have read:

The factory jetting is set for 0 degrees F or -20 degrees C

I mixed the F and C up..

Sorry..

Jim
Post by Wes 94ZR580
-20F is -29C.
Post by Gary C
Post by Jim
The factory jetting is set for 0 degrees C or -20 degrees F.
O degrees C is freezing
100 degrees C is boiling, AFAIK
Gary C
2003-07-18 01:29:08 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jim
I mixed the F and C up..
Sorry..
Jim
I wasn't trying to bust your balls, Jim.
I had trouble with that "new math", never mind the metric system!

But you have to admit, the above does look funny.
Just add the *U* and the *K* to your sentence, and well ....

MUHAHAHAHAHAHA!
Wes Thiessen
2003-07-22 18:23:15 UTC
Permalink
That be lean... not a good thing. I duno about this "cleaned off" statement
either... hope you have no serious problem. You need to solve it before you
ride thats for sure. Take a look down you sparkplug holes and look for
damage to your pistons. Maybe you have a bad seal...that can cause it to
run lean. Are all cyls/plugs the same?

Doo oil is good., but I can't see this problem being related to oil at
all.... looks all fuel/air to me.

Good luck!
Hi, thanks for the replies.
The plugs are definately burnt not fouled. They usually come out of
the machine white/grey. The jets are set to factory FIII specs (I
cant remember what that is now though) according to the dealer.
The temperatures I ride in arent extrememly cold, usually from -10 to
+3 (celcius). The machine has an electic temperature gauge too and it
never runs really hot. When I am riding it stays low but if I stop
and leave it running, the temperature does go up but not even close to
extreme. I would think it was normal.
The mechanic did say that the tops of my pistons were "Cleaned off."
I guess he means down to the aluminum with no carbon left. The
machine was better after getting it back from them with the new jets
and everything tuned up, but it did still ruin the plugs. I can feel
when it starts to happen and a few minutes later the skidoo loses all
its power.
How about oil? I havent been religiously using Bomabardier Brand like
they say you should. If I dont have any oil and I am at a gas station
I just take what they have on the shelf!
David Courtney
2003-07-22 18:51:08 UTC
Permalink
The spark plug gives you a "snapshot" of what was going on inside the
engine at the moment (or very shortly before) you shut it off.
In order to know whether you have the correct main jets by reading the
spark plug, you have to ride it wide open throttle for as long as you feel
safe/comfortable... then shut the engine off and coast to a stop. You can't
idle back to the trailer or ride back to the house to pull the plugs.
If you want to know whether you have the needle clip set at the right
height, you have to run it at 1/2 or 3/4 throttle (after you're sure you
have the correct main jets in it) and shut it off... coasting to a stop, and
read the plugs on site.
Looking at the plugs after the thing has lost power and quit running
just tells you that it was running like crap before you shut it off...
unless there is permanent evidence of detonation or perhaps anti-freeze
contamination.
"Clean" pistons come from running the engine rich, however you may be
rich on the main jets and deathly lean on the needle... giving you a hot
spot at perhaps 1/3 or 1/2 throttle.
Another possibility is that you're clutched for the wrong rpm now that
you have a different set of pipes. If you're forcing the engine to run
closer to it's torque peak that what the jetting specs were based on... you
can get extreme piston temperatures, detonation, spark plug overheating, all
sorts of the things.
Keep in mind that if your engine is supposed to be clutched to run at
say 8,500 rpm... then there is really no way that it would ever normally run
at 8,000 and wide open throttle for any length of time. So to run at 8,000
rpm would normally require perhaps 7/8 throttle... letting in less air and
possibly drawing more fuel (more vacuum) than 8,000 rpm at full throttle
does.
Being clutched for the incorrect rpm can lead to all sorts of problems
that you wouldn't normally expect... because these engines are designed and
tuned to work with the clutch to put out extremely large amounts of power
for their size.
Anyway, I would suggest you get the main jets sorted out first, then the
needles (should check 1/2 and 3/4 throttle with dual taper needles) and
finally sort out the idle speed and pilot settings. New plugs help
tremendously when dialing the carbs in, because it's easier to see the
changes.
Good luck,
David
--
Hi, thanks for the replies.
The plugs are definately burnt not fouled. They usually come out of
the machine white/grey. The jets are set to factory FIII specs (I
cant remember what that is now though) according to the dealer.
The temperatures I ride in arent extrememly cold, usually from -10 to
+3 (celcius). The machine has an electic temperature gauge too and it
never runs really hot. When I am riding it stays low but if I stop
and leave it running, the temperature does go up but not even close to
extreme. I would think it was normal.
The mechanic did say that the tops of my pistons were "Cleaned off."
I guess he means down to the aluminum with no carbon left. The
machine was better after getting it back from them with the new jets
and everything tuned up, but it did still ruin the plugs. I can feel
when it starts to happen and a few minutes later the skidoo loses all
its power.
How about oil? I havent been religiously using Bomabardier Brand like
they say you should. If I dont have any oil and I am at a gas station
I just take what they have on the shelf!
g***@hotmail.com
2014-02-18 20:07:11 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jeff
Hi,
I have a 1998 Formula III with a 700 triple and MACH 1 triple pipes
and 3000kms.
Towards the end of the year it started to burn-up sparkplugs extremely
quick. Some times I would get 30kms other times 3kms out of new
plugs. I had the carbs done at the local dealer, added a new oil
injection cable and had that adjusted. The machine was a whole lot
faster but it still killed the sparkplugs after a 30 - 40km run.
Anyone have an ideas? I've tried various heat ranges of plugs and
found BR10ES to last the longest but the problem is still anoying and
expensive.
b***@gmail.com
2015-02-23 04:30:09 UTC
Permalink
I have a 97 mach1, started off fouling 10's, then the 9's plugs looked black. one always looked wet blow it off put it in running again. just didn't let it idle solved problem started good always . but the same thing let it idle, same routine hate to say it . but not expensive. do the top end gaskets. ,turned out to be bad o ring in upper cylinder. Anouther thing get rid of your old air filter if stock. It falls apart and will stick rings if oem filter after all this time. Made the mistake trying to wipe snow off it. I didn't lose antifreeze enough to notice. U will surely know in a cold garage. Fog machine.
kewx
2015-02-23 17:07:37 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jeff
Hi,
I have a 1998 Formula III with a 700 triple and MACH 1 triple pipes
and 3000kms.
Towards the end of the year it started to burn-up sparkplugs extremely
quick. Some times I would get 30kms other times 3kms out of new
plugs. I had the carbs done at the local dealer, added a new oil
injection cable and had that adjusted. The machine was a whole lot
faster but it still killed the sparkplugs after a 30 - 40km run.
Anyone have an ideas? I've tried various heat ranges of plugs and
found BR10ES to last the longest but the problem is still anoying and
expensive.
There's a guy at Hoppy's bar in Kenton who knows all about this exact problem,.. name is Manwell.
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